Dungeon Bashing
I’m currently making the dungeon we’ll start playing this Saturday. I’m just thinking of giving you some options and say about it before I start making it in detail. So I just want some general opinions and views about dungeons in general, and not just this dungeon for these characters but dungeons in general. The more the better, since I want to have a clear picture of both your more personal as well as your views from your characters perspective.
Well, since this is mostly a discussion topic I just might add some of my own thoughts about Dungeons and the like.
When it comes to a dungeon I feel like I want to in some way make them logical in the sense of their uses. I mean, I don’t just make a challenging dungeon without a purpose practical, historical as well as otherwise. I can’t just put a dungeon in front of you because I think it would be fun, because that wouldn’t be fun for me.
This tough is a challenge. Not only does this limit where I can use my dungeons but it also adds a lot on the workload when I make a dungeon. If the dungeon needs to have a history, a purpose and a function which isn’t just stupid then all those things need to be carefully considered.
In many “regular” dungeon bashings there are a lot of traps and things like that. Traps, of course but there is a need to why and sometimes you also need a solution in which you can completely pass the traps, say if the dungeons purpose is to stop followers or something.
So a classical Zelda dungeon isn’t precisely my ideal picture of an good dungeon. Here you find the map, here a compass, and then here in the mighty end you find your boss. Of course a dungeon COULD be built like this, but then the dungeon would be a Treasure Chamber with a treasure which people meant for other people to take, not to protect. Or at least, it depends on the people who are behind the dungeon.
With the word dungeon, by the way, I mean ruins, dungeons, labyrinths and such stuff and not just a dungeon.
When it comes to the term Dungeon Crawling, I’m not quite sure what to think. Some definitions are that you are mostly going down into a dungeon which is very linear and kill everything in your way and then you will be rewarded. A lot of fighting. Others are just that you are down in a lot of dungeons and loot everything.
Speaking of killing and such nice things, some dungeons seem to have just a selective numbers of monsters while others have a lot of “meat” and then a number of “bosses” or “mini-bosses”. I don’t really know which I like best, but somehow I think that depends on the level on the dungeon.
Well, well… now I’m going to play.
So, any opinions?
The logic behind them may be quite interesting, but it still need to be balanced against fun. Only hack and slash would be quite boring and not much of actual dungeon bashing. But I agree, there should be some way around traps. Or atleast some way of logic to them, since they were set for a reason.
So, some story makes the whole thing interesting, there should be some battle. Not just a boss-fight in the end. Some meat along the way would be fun and maybe some mini-boss. Not just one last big battle.
Also, they shouldn’t be too linear. There should be some trick to the whole thing and of course some appropriate treasures along the way.
In addition to the logic of the dungeon, there should be some history in it. Dungeon bashing is a way of describing old and/or extinct societies. This makes more fun.
Now, give us a good dungeon.
I.e. A dungeon in which you won’t die in? That might be a little bit hard you know =P
As in, no terminator please. But please give us the possibility to die, but not an overwhelming such.
That I can do.
Well, well… off I go to finalize the dungeon.
I think Anders put it pretty well, a dungeon that makes sense sounds like a good thing to me, as long as it is fun.
One good way of making the dungeon non-linear is using puzzles to bypass dangerous rooms or situations. Didn’t solve the puzzle? Then your path goes through the ‘maze of death’, or maybe the path is the same but with traps or guardians activated or released.
A dungeon doesn’t need to have awhole lot of fighting in my opinion, if there’s too many similiar fights things will easily become slow and boring. However I do expect (and want) to see some combat when I enter dungeon.
One other thing about my preferences for dungeons, and actually… Many other situations and locations in general, is that risk and reward should be balanced against eachother. I’m sure you already do this, but it’s an opinion to be voiced anyway.
I think that’s about it for my personal views, as for the character… Hmmm…
Well, I don’t think Keisuke has been into that many dungeons and as such he doesn’t really know what to expect, other than ‘danger’ as he’s been told. From that he will likely assume that there will be traps and depending on what kind of place it is, maybe monsters.
What he wants from these kinds of expeditions is mainly a challenge, maybe to see something new and interesting and get some sweet trophy to show off.
Well well , I agree with most points that have already been pointed out , that a dungeon should have a story/purpose for being there , but also what kind of dungeon is important to give the right feel of things.
When it comes to enemies and monsters I also feel that there is a need for a purpose as to why they are there , and I would be fine with no enemies in a dungeon actually(for example “old meno” had a good eerie feeling but no monsters, not that we discovered anyway, dunno if you should call it a dungeon though.).
As Daniel pointed out that optional ways of solving they way through things might be done through puzzles and other means are also a good thing , this though depends what kind of dungeon it is I suppose.
From my own view of a dungeon , I think they should be challenging(this although can vary depending what type of dungeon and how hard you want it to be, but I always think that the players should atleast have a somewhat chance of either escaping or clearing the dungeon)for the players but not in the amount so you practically expect one character to die per “room”.
Another thing with a dungeon is that its a very good place to let the players achieve their goals or atleast give them an oppertunity.
I also dont think that a dungeon must have some kind of “end” boss since it just feels abit weird that some sort of uber enemy should be there “just because” ofcourse there might be reasons for a stronger opponent i.e that its a guardian of something.
From Viole(n)ts(=D) perspective she hopes to find some ancient lore/knowledge and learning more about demons or maybe find an ancient item to study closer , she also hopes to find something worth selling to the Marjuls to keep a steady income so she wont get deported from Taraien.
Also one thing I would just like to point out as a reminder is that even though its a dungeon we still aim to play a more depth into RPG so its not forgotten. with this I mean just not saying: “I go left , I search the shelves etc” ofcourse the foucs might not be as heavy on these things in an dungeon but its something that shouldnt be forgotten.
And finally I hope you atleast try to include maybe one optional puzzle since it would be fun to atleast try it once again. And if you do make a puzzle or two I hope you dont expect us to meta-think the puzzle since that is something I really dislike , since I remember in the “old” days you allowed such things but I dont think its fitting with the current playstyle , instead we(us players) could find other ways to solve this.
I.e we stand before a puzzle that has a few pieces that seemingly needs to be put in a correct pattern , Keisuke(sorry =D) might not be the brightest in the group but Daniel found out the correct pattern so he describes something like “Keisuke takes the pieces and annoyingly puts them in a random order(that is correct). the description was abit lacking but I hope you all know what I meant , I dont know if this is an acceptable way of solving a puzzle if the group seems to be stuck at it.(this soluion came to mind when you explained how to make use of the stones to create a favorable situation for yourself).
Oh well now I have rambled to much but I have high hopes for an interesting dungeon tomrrow.
Good that you all commented. Foppa can’t comment since his computer has broken down and is unable to start for some of several reasons.
I think most of what you’ve said is what I’ve said and it’s always good to have your opinions for the future.
Well, well… this dungeon will most likely be harder than “Ukuns Grav” but it will be less dangerous. I also plan for you to be able to return to this place in the future.
My main goal for this dungeon is to create a dungeon that is non linear and have a lot of possibilities as well as lore but nothing too obvious.
Most of the other points I managed to include in my other dungeon which Ankan have played but the only thing I failed on with that place is functionality and non-linear structure.
Well, well… I’m now going to rest my arms, shoulders and back a little since I’ve carried four bags and one backpack filled with stuff from Kvantum that I’m pretty tired and my muscel fever have just gone worse and most likely I have a minor muscel inflamation in my shoulder.
I’m just going to give you a little heads up now.
I’m not finished but most of the concept of the dungeon is done.
This dungeon will be classified as a Mystical Dungeon earlier called “Magical Labyrinth”.
This means that this place have a very special purpose and also that the place is semi-alive and very, very old. So you can say that you will have quite a challenge in this place, although it won’t be the same thing as it was before.
Everything changes…
Maybe except war, if you ask Fallout (this not including the so called Fallout 3).
Well, if we’re going to quote games on words of wisdom then there’s Snake… Saying something to the effect of “war has c hanged” 😛
Sound like fun anyway, see you tomorrow.